Wednesday, May 17, 2006

Da Vinci Dialogue

Last week was a ton of fun having Erwin Lutzer here on the Central Coast helping us with three nights of Da Vinci Dialogue throughout the county. We hosted the SLO city evening on Friday and had 675 or so show up. The Worship Center was packed with 140 in overflow in the Ministry Center. It was neat to see churches/pastors/believers from all over the county come together to be equipped.

Were you there? Were you equipped? If you missed it, we've posted the audio on the website for your listening pleasure.

If you're looking for printed resources, you can find them at centralcoastchurches.com.

Matt Willams over at K-Life/890AM sent a couple of interesting Da Vinci Code quotes. . . .

"If they put up a sign saying, 'This Wednesday we're discussing the gospel,' 12 people show up. But if a sign says, 'This Wednesday we're discussing The Da Vinci Code,' 800 people show up. I think the movie may end up helping churches do their job." —Tom Hanks, who stars in the big-screen depiction of Dan Brown's heretical novel [Christian Newswire, 5/9/06]

"Let the biblical scholars and historians battle it out." —Dan Brown's response to many Christians' and theologians' criticism of the claims he makes in his novel, The Da Vinci Code. "It's a book about big ideas," he told an audience of 850 at a sold-out writers' conference, "but we're all talking about them, and that's really the point." [AP, 4/24/06]
Any reactions? Will you see the movie which is being released May 19th? Why or why not?

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting this. I couldn't be there, but I'm listening now. I grabbed the Grace Beyond and Mike Yankoski's for listening to later.

I like the Hanks quote. I probably won't see the movie. It doesn't interest me and I have a few more pressing things to do right now. But, I will inform myself so that I can speak about the truth of what it is based on and the truth of what the Bible is based on.

Josh Mock said...

I plan to see the movie, for the same reasons as Andy. It was a fun thriller story which has been turned into a movie that will hopefully be just as fun.

In regards to Lutzer's talk, though... honestly, I was somewhat disappointed. He went on a few tangents which left less time to directly address the book. Also, I found his lack of humility in presenting his talk frustrating. It seemed that his attitude was one of haughty derision rather than one of sincere trouble over the issues the book has presented. I know that if I was an unbeliever there that night, curious about the church's response to The Da Vinci Code, I would have been turned off to the church in general simply by his lack of respect toward the "opposition."

Jeannett said...

I too, was a bit disappointed by the Lutzer discusssion...I think he did a good job in general, but I was also hoping for some more specifics in regards to the book...like, looking at the DaVinci paintings and seeing if Brown's claims were really there...or, more information on Opus Dei as an organization and the Priory of Scion and it's historical roots/significance. But, either way, I was glad to have gone and feel much better equipped in general.

Unfortunately (or fortuantely, depending on how you look at it) it sounds like the movie has gotten some bad buzz. It was shown at Cannes recently and people were bored and thought it was poorly done. So, I may not want to go see the movie after all.

Roy said...

I don't see why anyone would want to see this movie or read the book for that matter, why should we have to make up excuses for the devils lies?

Jeannett said...

It's not excuses so much as helping others understand that they are lies in the first place. If we, as Christians, just stick our heads in the sand like Ostriches, it only adds suspicion to our "stupid leap of faith". Those who do not believe, are of the mind that Christians are silly, mindless sheep that believe in Jesus, the tooth fairy, and santa claus. If we understand what they are talking about, (i.e. the claims made in the book) we are much more informed in order to explain why they are works of fiction, NOT fact.

Lastly, a co-worker raised her brows and was surprised when she saw me reading the book. She explained that she didn't think I would read it...when I asked why she said that "well, it will certainly challenge your beliefs, it'll be interesting to see how you feel about church when you are done". My response to her was something to the effect of: "My faith is grounded in many things, and I am not worried that reading one lousy fictional book will alter the entire way I live my life, and what I believe. My convictions are not so easily swayed." She seemed to find my answer interesting, and I honestly think she respects me more for not just running in the opposite direction when someone challenges Christianity, instead taking it on headfirst.

Christianity has all the evidence behind it. To pretend that it is ALL faith is false. Much of adult conversion is based on logical and reasoned debate...and, that is why I personally wanted to read the book.

True understanding comes when you can see both sides of the argument...and then deciding that, yes, the side you are on is the right one.

Brianna Heldt said...

I'm currently reading the book (thanks Gibsons!) and I can't put it down; it's great!

I really don't think it's making up excuses for "the devil's lies, being that it's a fictional novel. I don't think it's unusual for an author to take something everyone knows something about--in this case Jesus and the Catholic Church--and make those things into a fiction story. I think that sure Satan will hope to use it for his purposes--BUT God is so much bigger and what man intended for evil, God will use for good...

When else in the recent past have we as Christians had the opportunity to say to our non-Christians friends or co-workers, "Hey, what did you think of 'The DaVinci Code', what do you think about Jesus?" What an amazing opportunity the Lord is giving us in opening up a totally non-threatening door for us to share. What a powerful testimony when a believer is not threatened by what's in that book (like what Jeannett shared.)

I think it is common for us as believers to flee our culture, but I think instead we have to fight that temptation so that we can be "salt" and "light."

I'm excited to see the movie (I love Tom Hanks) as well. Oh and I can relate to what Josh said about the talk. Definitely seemed to be geared more towards church people.

Roy said...

Yes, we need to be prepared to defend our faith, that's why we study the Bible and learn Church history. I don't have to watch pornography in order to dialog about it! It seems the Christian response to a Christ dishonoring piece of junk is to write books ( no less than seven) and hold seminars. If you want fiction, read the davinci lies, if you want Truth, read the Bible. And some of the comments, "Fun thriller", "It's great!", "Excited to see the movie!" , "A very good and engaging book!", What's that all about?

Brianna Heldt said...

Roy,

"It's great"--that's about the fact that I think it's a good book in that it's entertaining and fun to read. NOT great in the sense that I believe its' claims about Christ, which are ridiculous. And I DON'T think it's great that people out there are believing these things in the book. Hopefully that clarifies some things.

"excited to see the movie"--that's about the fact that I think the story will make for a good movie, and I like Tom Hanks.

What do you think about Christians reading fiction and watching movies in general? Where do you think we should draw the line? I've found that there are many books/movies that while not overtly "Christian," unknowingly portray very Christ-like messages.

Kevin and I just saw the movie "Crash" last night for example, which while not the feel-good, family film of the year, actually portrayed some gospel-centered ideas: the sin and prejudice in ALL of us, and how people cannot easily be categorized into either "good people" or "bad people." Good things for our culture to be thinking about, instead of the more prevalent idea of how we're all good people without the need for salvation or redemption. I think that movie would also be a great starting point for discussions with non-believers.

Roy said...

Brianna,
Entertainment is one thing, I like movies too but am very picky about what I go see. When somebody writes a book or produces a movie about my Lord Jesus Christ portraying him as having a sexual encounter with Mary, that's where I draw the line, I don't classify that as entertainment, Blasphemy would be a better word.

Anonymous said...

I understand not being totally ignorant about what is going on in the world, but I'm not going to pay money and spend 2 hours to put myself in a situation that I really don't want to be in just so that I can speak as one who has seen it. The gain doesn't seem worth the pain to me.

What I have heard about the story line does not intrigue me nor do I enjoy sitting there watching people twist the truth about my Jesus.

Nothing against those who go. I just won't one of them.

Roy said...

Andy,
My solutions, as posted earlier, Are to study your Bible and know Church History. You don't have to wallow in pornography to know its sin! The gist of this book is easily known by reading a review.
And as for you saying your not uncomfortable seeing the movie or reading the book, that really scares me!

Roy said...

Let's give the Bible (God's Word)some credit, 2nd Timothy 3:16-17 says,"All scripture is inspired by God, and profitable for teaching,for reproof,for correction,for training in righteousness;That the man of God may be adequate,equipped for every good work. Also, Romans 12:2 says,"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Roy said...

Andy, Are you saying that the Bible "just doesn't do it anymore"?

Kevin Heldt said...

The issue at stake here is not about whether or not Christians should look to the Bible as the very Words of Life, the true inerrant Word of God, and all that is necessary for life and Godliness. I think we would all agree that the Bible is this and more and that we should look to it as such. We're talking about how a Christian shares the truth about Jesus Christ with an unbeliever. I assume that we all take for granted (though perhaps I am wrong) that the Bible is only convincing to someone who has come to at least partially trust it. I assume (again) that that is the spirit behind Andy's statement that merely quoting the Bible doesn't cut it. If someone is adamantly opposed to the Bible or thinks that it is a bunch of made-up stories, then they are not going to be overly impressed with what they believe to be some of the silly things written in it. I should add that I do believe that there is great power in Jesus' very words and that God can and often does work simply through that power in an unbeliever's heart. So I am by no means advocating discarding the Bible when sharing with an unbeliever. But in the Bible I don't see a pattern of believers merely quoting Bible verses with those they are evangelizing. Yes, we do see a lot of "Bible preaching" in the New Testament but the audience in these cases are almost always Jews and Jesus and the apostles are beginning from what their audience knows and connecting the dots to what they need to know. When Paul speaks to the Gentiles, he does not quote a lot of OT to them. The example that rings in my mind is when Paul addresses the Athenians "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you..." Paul didn't just quote the OT to them, he found a common point of departure and went from there to boldly proclaim the truth of Jesus Christ. If we have friends and coworkers who are believing the lies masquerading as facts in Dan Brown's book, then this might be a great opportunity for us to strike up a conversation in the hopes of ultimately sharing with them the riches of Christ. As others have noted, this cultural moment can serve as a way to start up a conversation with people that might be unwilling to talk about related matters in any other circumstance.

I need to add one more disclaimer. I was very glad that at the Lutzer talk, someone asked the question about the Last Temptation of Christ. There are most certainly things in this world that a Christian is instructed to flee at all costs. And from everything I have heard about that movie, it would seem that it is one of them. I think this is the sense in which Roy's point about not needing to look at pornography to dialog about it is very true and important. So it is troubling to me when I hear about Christians who feel the need to be in the thick of the "party scene" and that kind of thing so that they can supposedly help their friends. What we avoid should also be a powerful testimony to unbelievers. But we are not to flee the entire culture around us. Somehow we need to be in and not of this world.

Now to personally answer the question at hand, I do plan to read the book and we will probably rent the movie when it comes out on DVD. I do not take the line that "it's just a novel" and therefore it doesn't matter whether or not the things in it are true or not. I think it is very irresponsible for a novelist to so egregiously mishandle known history. It's one thing to put crackpot conspiracy theories in the mouth of some mentally confused or unstable character but when it is supposedly the educated dude with the real answers, that is simply dishonest. This doesn't surprise me though -- each Easter, Newsweek or some "reputable news media" touts out some lame story about what an educated reader should really think of Jesus Christ and "the resurrection." These types of lies are not new.

To summarize this horribly inconcise post, I think it is important to "always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect..." And from the example I see laid out in the NT, I think we need to make at least some effort to understand where our hearers are coming from. It is hard to understand how we can be gentle or respectful if we do not. Clearly that doesn't mean we join in sin and clearly we need to be careful about where that line is for the things that we just need to steer clear of at all costs, but a goofy novel with a bizarre concept and some distorted and fabricated "history" conveniently "inserted" in chapter 55 is, in my opinion, on this side of that line. By all means, let's help those friends who are believing this rot.

Anonymous said...

I think that Andy's evolution analogy is close. Learning how someone else thinks and what is being sold to the public is not a moral issue like porn which we should not be involved in (there is a way to reach out to that segment too, but I digress). I think the analogy falls apart a bit because learning evolution is basically mandatory. Most of us had to go to schools that taught it. So we had to sit in class and either learn it or fail. Da Vinci is entertainment where we have a choice.

Kevin's parallel with Paul looking around Athens and seeing the various gods is better. Paul understood what the basic topics of Athenian conversation and their interests, but he didn't have to worship at their alters, spend a lot of time studying their gods, and experience the whole life to be able to bring the Gospel to them where they were at.

I think that in the same way we don't have to experience and financially support (money talks) things that stand against Christ to be able to speak intelligently about them. We can know our Bibles, know where it came from, and understand the claims that are being presented and why they are false.

That's not being scared. I don't think that anyone here fears that the movie will shake their faith.

I think that the difference here is this question. How involved and experienced in something that is clearly standing against the claims of Christ does a Christian need to be in order to be able to lovingly engage in conversation and steer toward Christ?
Each of us need to answer that for ourselves keeping in mind the experiences and personalities of the people that God has put in our lives for the purpose of showing them Christ.

Roy said...

Amen, Tim!

Kevin Heldt said...

Indeed, I don't think that any Christian needs to read the book or see the movie to understand it well enough to "lovingly engage" someone about it. Any old summary about the main points presented and some back knowledge about Gnosticism will probably do. As I said earlier, these lies are not new or earth shattering. (However, specific cases could certainly warrant a closer inspection.)

But I also don't think this book is necessarily more "against Christ" than a lot of other things. Don't get me wrong -- it's heretical with a capital 'H' but so is most of what comes out of this world. This book may be more blunt and direct about it, but how many TV shows, movies, or books are there that don't, in some way, completely mock, dismiss or mishandle the truths about our Lord and His creation that we hold so dear? I don't see much of a difference. So if you want to read it just to see what the fuss is about or because you've heard it is a well-written story, then I think you should be able to.

The question of financial support is an interesting one. Though I borrowed the book and will probably just do the $1 rental in a few months so I guess I'll have to let the more relevant yay and nay voices speak out on that.