tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post6688279185454336278..comments2023-11-05T03:18:37.731-08:00Comments on life together: my "shoot from the hip" reasons to believe the GospelTimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16613060195802747865noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-40942362884277101172009-04-29T11:35:00.000-07:002009-04-29T11:35:00.000-07:00Anon 2: Thanks for your thoughts.
Its clear to...Anon 2: Thanks for your thoughts. <br /><br />Its clear to me that though you and I share a common faith in our great God and His glorious Gospel, you and I might interact with a non-believer in different ways. I'm alright with that. . . <br /><br />If you'd like to continue our dialogue, I'd prefer to do it face to face. So I invite you come out of the shadows and lets set up a time to chat. You can reach me at 805.543.2358.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16613060195802747865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-45664203156684576722009-04-28T17:01:00.000-07:002009-04-28T17:01:00.000-07:00Does the Bible teach that a Christian’s faith shou...Does the Bible teach that a Christian’s faith should be expressed in terms of “probability” or a “bet?” I can’t think of any place in the Bible where this is the case. Granted, from a strictly unbelieving intellectual perspective we all used to talk this way. But from the Christian perspective, is this accurate?<br /><br />I agree, WE can’t prove God’s existence. But GOD can and does. He has positively revealed Himself to Christians (Matthew 16:17). Now that He has revealed Himself to us, can it be said that when we speak in the affirmative of God’s positive existence (not probability or a bet) that we are speaking arrogantly? I think that’s a leap. From the world’s perspective, yes that may sound arrogant. But from our perspective it’s absolutely true – for us and them. There is no possible way GOD doesn’t exist. <br /><br />I don’t know one Christian who doesn’t feel for the unregenerate. I don’t know one Christian who would arrogantly call an unregenerate person a “fool” for their unbelief. That would be like calling a blind man a fool for running into a wall he can’t see and forgetting that we too were once a blind man. A Christian understands and is broken over the state of the soul of the unbeliever. And in humility, with great compassion we should clearly communicate the absolute existence of God among other things.<br /><br />Christians do empathize with the unbelieving person. But please tell me how it helps the unbelieving person when the Christian willingly reveals their personal sin of temporary unbelief in God’s existence? And where is the precedent for this kind of confession in the Bible? I wouldn’t tell one of my unbelieving friends that I think their a fool for not believing in God’s existence. But I would read them what God says. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” (Ps 14, 53).<br /><br />Living out of the gospel ensures we never loose site of what we’ve been forgiven of. We know our sin AND the kindness of God through the Cross. This keeps us humble, compassionate, and understanding towards those folks who don’t have eyes to see.<br /><br />In 1 Corinthians 15, I love how Paul speaks to those who doubted the resurrection of believers. I’m sure Paul is empathizing with these folks. But he didn’t say anything like, “Yes, there is a possibility that we will not be raised.” He left them with the implications of their unbelief in the resurrection of believers. He didn’t expose any areas of his personal sin in an attempt to connect with them. He said, “IF there is no resurrection…” <br /><br />Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. 1 Cor. 15:12-19<br /><br />In verse 20 Paul tells them the straight up truth – in the affirmative. ”In fact Christ has been raise from the dead…”<br /><br />Christians have come in contact with GOD – the Lord Jesus Christ. He has quickened us and granted us eternal life. We definitely KNOW Him and KNOW He exists. Although we may stumble from time to time in unbelief, how does admitting it to the unbeliever bring any glory to Christ? We are admitting to the unbeliever that we don’t believe in the one who granted us eternal life, justification, forgiveness of sins or even created us in the first place. That just seems crazy to me. I still don’t understand.<br /><br />I don’t see how confessing our sin of unbelief to an unbeliever brings them closer to the Lord Jesus. I think it’s shameful and may even harden a person’s heart even more. Yes, they might be able to relate to us. They might even like us more for admitting our unbelief to them, but is that the means God has given His Church to assist in the new birth of an unbelieving person?<br /><br />God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-5929627526178200162009-04-28T11:42:00.000-07:002009-04-28T11:42:00.000-07:00Tim I love all the dialog here and especially love...Tim I love all the dialog here and especially love your straightforward answers. thank you for acknowledging that doubt is a part of this life here. Just want to share a great quote from one of my favorite authors as it pertains to life, faith and doubt: "I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia."<br /><br />--The Silver Chair, C.S. Lewis<br /><br /><br />Thanks for engaging us!Lisa Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16822350830817782129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-6754203505576880152009-04-28T09:03:00.000-07:002009-04-28T09:03:00.000-07:00Anon #2 (Sure wish you'd share your name!):
I ap...Anon #2 (Sure wish you'd share your name!): <br /><br />I appreciate your perspective and I'm thinking about it.<br /><br />But Troy captured my intent and angle well...<br /><br />The existence of God cannot be proven and yet we all bet our lives on something. All of creation and the Spirit within do speak to my mind and heart about the sure and certain existence of God, but still I think its helpful to empathize with someone on the road to faith. I think its important to acknowledge the challenge and difficulty of faith in Christ in such a secular, pluralistic age like our own that presents to us a very opposite narrative. <br /><br />I don't think its helpful to act like the Gospel and the existence of God is an air worldview that one is crazy and stupid not embrace. I think to talk like this to those who do not yet believe is demeaning, belittling and off-putting. <br /><br />I think its more helpful to identify with their doubts and remember well our own process to coming to faith and our own struggle of faith. <br /><br />God is pleased by our faith in the unseen . . . <br /><br />Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of [things] hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. <br /><br />Heb. 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and [that] He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16613060195802747865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-26603246942720047502009-04-27T22:36:00.000-07:002009-04-27T22:36:00.000-07:00Troy I KNEW you were really a butterfly! :)Troy I KNEW you were really a butterfly! :)Brianna Heldthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08224838737334231065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-58593864158062775282009-04-27T18:48:00.000-07:002009-04-27T18:48:00.000-07:00Anon:
I saw the question as a technical one. The ...Anon:<br />I saw the question as a technical one. The question of whether or not God exists is a question of provability. The bigger question that is often addressed in Philosophy classes and such is whether or not we can prove anything. How do I know that I'm not a butterfly dreaming I'm a man, sort of thing. I can't prove it.<br />I think that Tim was simply acknowledging the fact that we can't prove the existence of God, the same way that we can't really prove anything, but that our lives and the world around us make the most sense if God of the Bible does exist.<br /><br />TroyBeckyandTroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311242759407486227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-1786469552976400952009-04-27T17:22:00.000-07:002009-04-27T17:22:00.000-07:00When an unregenerate person asks us, “is there a p...When an unregenerate person asks us, “is there a possibility that God doesn’t exist,” shouldn’t our answer be from a regenerate/believing perspective? We must tell them the truth! “NO, there is no possibility that God doesn’t exists. He positively DOES exist. Along with all the evidence for God we see around us: beauty, love, simplicity/complexity, intelligent-design everywhere we look, our deep human longings and feelings, our human brokenness and the implicit morality of the universe – God has positively revealed Himself to me in His Son Jesus Christ (Jn 14:21). I know from evidence and experience that God does exist.” (Or something like that).<br /><br />If I were an unregenerate person asking a Christian “is there a possibility that God doesn’t exist?” I would expect them to answer the question from a believing perspective. To hear a Christian say, “there is a possibility that God does not exist,” seems unhelpful to the unbeliever – except to give them reason to remain unbelieving. I mean, if the believer isn’t sure about the existence of God, why should the unbeliever be?<br /><br />Please help me understand how telling unregenerate people that I as a Christian leave open the possibility that God doesn’t exist? Maybe I’m misunderstanding what’s being said.<br /><br />I can’t imagine someone like Moses, after seeing the glory of God, telling an unbeliever that there is a possibility that God doesn’t exist. Yet, the Christian has the third Person of the Trinity dwelling in them. From this perspective, how can we be telling an unbelieving person the truth and say, “Yes, there is a possibility that God does not exist” when we are sure He does exist? He has revealed Himself to us!<br /><br />I understand that many people believe wrongly about who Jesus is. But for a nonbeliever to hear a believer confess that there is a possibility that God does not exist is more or less the same as saying, that we too leave open the possibility that Jesus didn’t exist. Just trying to understand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-25613287270374354192009-04-27T14:57:00.000-07:002009-04-27T14:57:00.000-07:00Thanks, friends, for engaging.
Anon: Though the...Thanks, friends, for engaging. <br /><br />Anon: Though the historicity of Jesus is established, that doesn't mean that you believe He was God. Most in the world today believe He was merely a good moral teacher. Its very possible to believe in the existence of Jesus, but still not believe in the existence of God. Obviously, for Christians these two are linked and support each other. <br /><br />Joe. . . <br />Re Purgutory: I am far from a Catholic scholar, but in my very limited understanding, purgatory is not a place of final destination, but a place which somehow offers a second chance for those who did not keep the Catholic sacraments in this life. When a person goes to purgatory, their future final eternal destination is not yet determined and sure. In fact, I believe the living can affect and influence those in purgatory.<br /><br />Protestants, on the other hand, do not believe this "midpoint place", but that our final eternal destinations are determined by our response, in this life to the person and work of Christ. <br /><br />John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” <br /><br />Re OT passages and eternal life: Its an interesting question. The OT is far less concerned with eternal life than the New Testament. What is interesting, to me, however, is that some seemed to approach Jesus and ask him the question and he pointed them back to the law. . . <br /><br />And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"<br /><br />Jesus said "What is written in the law? How do you read?"<br /><br />And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your<br />heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all<br />your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."<br /><br />And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live." Luke 10:25-28<br /><br /><br />"And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed<br />must I do, to have eternal life?"<br /><br />"And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One<br />there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:16-17<br /><br /><br />If the Gospels are accurate in recording these dialogues (and that is the question, isn't it?), then there seemed to be a common understanding that the OT pointed us to the attaining of eternal life through law keeping. <br /><br />My own view is that in these dialogues, Jesus is slyly leading these questioners to the reality that that was a dead end way, as a step to receiving Himself as the way. These dialogues are happening as Jesus marches toward the cross to make atonement for sin. <br /><br />Indeed, next to the law stood the system of sacrifices.... a temporary covering for sin until the once for all time, once for all peoples sacrifice would come. <br /><br />Hope that's helpful. . . T.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16613060195802747865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-88484372562259791172009-04-27T13:56:00.000-07:002009-04-27T13:56:00.000-07:00Great post. A couple of questions.
What is the d...Great post. A couple of questions.<br /><br />What is the difference between the Catholic purgatory and the place Protestants believe non-believers end up?<br /><br />Where would I look to find the OT passages suggesting that God requires one to live a perfect, sinless life to inherit eternal life?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-76654969055137470132009-04-27T12:40:00.000-07:002009-04-27T12:40:00.000-07:00Loved this post; really great thoughts and so hone...Loved this post; really great thoughts and so honest. Thanks for this...it will be helpful in talking to others about my relationship with God.Janice Phillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834020038009794226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-73897287329239510902009-04-27T12:25:00.000-07:002009-04-27T12:25:00.000-07:00Isn't saying that there is a possibility that God ...Isn't saying that there is a possibility that God does not exist the same as saying that there is a possibility Jesus Christ didn't exist? <br /><br />We know for sure that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. There is NO DOUBT that He existed. Therefore, we know FOR SURE God exists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10880332.post-41322379934925462092009-04-27T12:22:00.000-07:002009-04-27T12:22:00.000-07:00Good answers, Tim. Thanks for sharing those.Good answers, Tim. Thanks for sharing those.Kevin Heldthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979865151240098141noreply@blogger.com